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The Timeless Children- What did you thinking the Series Finale?
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The series final has aired on the BBC and has been uploaded on ABC iview. What did you think of The Timeless Children? Did any of your theories get up? Discuss in the comments section, but if you havent seen the episode yet- BEWARE SPOILERS!
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19 Comments
Outstanding ...although Gallifrey has looked better ......the delve into Tekthan and ancient Timelord / Cherbogan history was bonza....the master and the doctor in the data slice was great ....although I did think when loopy Larry told Jodie she was the timeless child , I did go , yeah yeah sure she is ....
and as for the fam dressing up as Cybermen...BRILLIANT....the liquid body hopping cyberium was an interesting addition to recent cyber history ( from Matt Smith on) ....and then there was regenerating cyberlords...gadzooks....and then the Doctor over loaded the matrix, not the first time if memory serves, Capaldi punching a hole in it for 4 billion years counts doesnâ??t it , ....but all I know is , the doctor must be on here 148th regeneration .....I was of the firm belief that old beardy mate might of been up to no good....although he did seem to know how to work that tardis classic...
....and of course The Master phenomenal ego stuffed him up again , you think heâ??d learn by now ... Iâ??m still trying to get my head around how after Missy / Master obliterated each other ...were did old mate ( who is a utter looney) on this series come from .....but I guess like every Whovian nere do well , he/ she/ it will be back ....the tardis chameleon circuit landing as a house was a bit good as was the tree , finally ones that works .....anyway ...upwards and onwards
and as for the fam dressing up as Cybermen...BRILLIANT....the liquid body hopping cyberium was an interesting addition to recent cyber history ( from Matt Smith on) ....and then there was regenerating cyberlords...gadzooks....and then the Doctor over loaded the matrix, not the first time if memory serves, Capaldi punching a hole in it for 4 billion years counts doesnâ??t it , ....but all I know is , the doctor must be on here 148th regeneration .....I was of the firm belief that old beardy mate might of been up to no good....although he did seem to know how to work that tardis classic...
....and of course The Master phenomenal ego stuffed him up again , you think heâ??d learn by now ... Iâ??m still trying to get my head around how after Missy / Master obliterated each other ...were did old mate ( who is a utter looney) on this series come from .....but I guess like every Whovian nere do well , he/ she/ it will be back ....the tardis chameleon circuit landing as a house was a bit good as was the tree , finally ones that works .....anyway ...upwards and onwards
Excellent, really enjoyed it. Jodie was pretty wooden against the Master though who gave another great performance.
Looking forward to the next episode if the standard is this good.
Looking forward to the next episode if the standard is this good.
In all quite a good episode, though a few things make no sense - if the Timeless Child is the only one with limitless regenerations, where does Rasilion fit in? Remember we know he has infinite regenerations and is immortal. I was thinking that perhaps the Master read it wrong and the Doctor is Tecteum and Rasilion the Timeless Child (after all Tecteum copied the child's ability to regenerate exactly) or perhaps the reverse is true (Rasilion is the Doctor's adopted mother).
This wasn't the first time people have pretended to be Cybermen (Attack of the Cybermen, and The Age of Steel - the later they pretended to be hypnotized for conversion), but it is the first time that people without any conversion/earpods have successfully pretended to be Cybermen.
My favourite part was when the Doctor overloaded the Matrix (with stuff it should know....) and we saw all the previous Doctors from William Hartnell to Peter Capaldi...it reminded me of previous episodes e.g. The Brain of Morbius, The Eleventh Hour, Nightmare in Silver, the Day of the Doctor etc.
In all I would rate this episode 4.25/5 (a different Doctor and/or more answers would have given as higher score). I just hope that the Daleks are much improved over that useless one in Resolution - but nevertheless I am looking forward to the Revolution of the Daleks (and especially seeing how the Doctor gets out of Judoon jail).
This wasn't the first time people have pretended to be Cybermen (Attack of the Cybermen, and The Age of Steel - the later they pretended to be hypnotized for conversion), but it is the first time that people without any conversion/earpods have successfully pretended to be Cybermen.
My favourite part was when the Doctor overloaded the Matrix (with stuff it should know....) and we saw all the previous Doctors from William Hartnell to Peter Capaldi...it reminded me of previous episodes e.g. The Brain of Morbius, The Eleventh Hour, Nightmare in Silver, the Day of the Doctor etc.
In all I would rate this episode 4.25/5 (a different Doctor and/or more answers would have given as higher score). I just hope that the Daleks are much improved over that useless one in Resolution - but nevertheless I am looking forward to the Revolution of the Daleks (and especially seeing how the Doctor gets out of Judoon jail).
Reply
Robert
4:49 AM on March 2, 2020
This episode was better than most of Jodie's, but am I alone in not wanting to know everything about the doctor. I am more than happy to be left wondering about him, he is after all called Doctor Who. Using ones Imagination wondering who he is what's his past that's all part of the Dr Who adventure. And one side note I do believe Ryan ( the wooden hat stand) almost acted in this episode, it's all to much for me I think I need to did down.
Robert says...
This episode was better than most of Jodie's, but am I alone in not wanting to know everything about the doctor. I am more than happy to be left wondering about him, he is after all called Doctor Who. Using ones Imagination wondering who he is what's his past that's all part of the Dr Who adventure. And one side note I do believe Ryan ( the wooden hat stand) almost acted in this episode, it's all to much for me I think I need to did down.
I think it's sweet how the younger viewers take the historical bit so seriously and expect it all to make sense and be completely faithfull to bygone years whereas some of us older cynics just want good episodes and entertainment. So I don't really care much about the history, unless it blatantly violates the DNA of the show without explanation or reason. "The Timeless Children", even though I enjoyed it, reminded me a bit of Pamela Ewing's awakening in Dallas and finding the whole series was just a dream. I wonder if the next Doctor will suddenly appear after a dream that he was a woman and we can write that season off as an aberration. We shall see.
As for the series over all,, slightly better that the last one, although Jodie does not have the screen presence needed to be a believable doctor , the production teem do not understand the programs strengths and clearly have no respect for the shows history. I can not understand for the life of me why they just didn't create a whole new program centering around a completly different Time Lord, instead of highjacking Doctor Who, and subsequently destroying the shows history and alienating the traditional audience. All in the name of political correctness, what a Wank, it is so sad that the powers that run the program can't see how bad it is and how they are dragging the doctor towards cancellation. I got Jodie's first season on DVD as I have for all the seasons from 1963 onwards, but the only difference is I have watched all the others many times, but Jodie is still wrapped in the clear plastic never to be opened or viewed,, and that will also be the fate of the current season when it's released on DVD.
I haven't seen the episode. I have no desire to do so. Courtesy of some leaks and information from friends, I know the plot of the episode.
Chibnall knows his Doctor Who. References to the Shobogans, Panopticon, Borusa...he knows his stuff. Clearly he knew about the Morbius Doctors as well. As best I can determine, this whole series arc was entirely devoted to making the Morbius Doctors official Doctors, without a single damn given for any other lore or continuity that would break as a result. Apparently Chibnall's wanted to tell this story for decades - and I think that's correct, because it reads like atrocious fan fiction. He's broken an extremely long list for a minor thing fans had easily explained away for decades.
He's completely and utterly character assassinated the Doctor. She's now the Chosen One, destined for great things - hell, as the Ruth Doctor shows, she was kicking about in a police box TARDIS calling herself the Doctor long before the Hartnell Doctor came on the scene. So all that character growth that we saw the Hartnell Doctor experience? Utterly pointless. It's incredibly disrespectful to Hartnell.
The Doctor should not be the uber-special Chosen One. He should always be the ordinary man, the underachiever, who got bored/fearful/whatever and left Gallifrey, becoming the person we know through his interaction with his companions. You know, the development we actually saw. Guess that's not the case anymore.
Can the Doctor die mid-regeneration like other the Time Lords? Is she immortal? Does she still have infinite regenerations? I guess that makes The Time of the Doctor completely pointless now too. It's nice that The Day of the Doctor has got someone to commiserate with.
So I guess the 'first' Doctor is actually the millionth Doctor for all we know? Numbering them all will be fun won't it?
But the best thing is that the Ruth Doctor comes in and tells the Doctor that the revelations about desecration of her past don't actually change who she is, so it doesn't matter. I vehemently disagree, obviously, but will simply say that if that's the case, why bother with the storyline in the process? What's the point of it?
The only conclusion that I can reach is that Chibnall has done it purely for the sake of his ego, so he will be remembered for something - cos it's definitely not going to be for the quality of his episodes and era.
I'm a lifelong fan of Doctor Who. I'm not a fan in any way, shape, or form of what this zombified husk is now. As far as I'm concerned, Doctor Who ended in 2017, and will not be revived until someone comes along and rightly retcons this mess away. 'The Master tampered with the Matrix.' There. Done.
"I'm the Doctor. I'm a Time Lord from the planet Gallifrey in the constellation of Kasterborous." Is a sentence that is completely and utterly false. Let that sink in.
I shall now attempt to compartmentalise this episode so that I'll actually be able to enjoy past eras of the show. Wish me luck.
.
(As an aside, I don't think I'd have much of a problem with the Timeless Child idea if it were applied to anyone other than the Doctor. Hell, it'd actually make a good deal of sense to make it the Master - it would at least explain why he's able to come back from assumed death all the time.)
Chibnall knows his Doctor Who. References to the Shobogans, Panopticon, Borusa...he knows his stuff. Clearly he knew about the Morbius Doctors as well. As best I can determine, this whole series arc was entirely devoted to making the Morbius Doctors official Doctors, without a single damn given for any other lore or continuity that would break as a result. Apparently Chibnall's wanted to tell this story for decades - and I think that's correct, because it reads like atrocious fan fiction. He's broken an extremely long list for a minor thing fans had easily explained away for decades.
He's completely and utterly character assassinated the Doctor. She's now the Chosen One, destined for great things - hell, as the Ruth Doctor shows, she was kicking about in a police box TARDIS calling herself the Doctor long before the Hartnell Doctor came on the scene. So all that character growth that we saw the Hartnell Doctor experience? Utterly pointless. It's incredibly disrespectful to Hartnell.
The Doctor should not be the uber-special Chosen One. He should always be the ordinary man, the underachiever, who got bored/fearful/whatever and left Gallifrey, becoming the person we know through his interaction with his companions. You know, the development we actually saw. Guess that's not the case anymore.
Can the Doctor die mid-regeneration like other the Time Lords? Is she immortal? Does she still have infinite regenerations? I guess that makes The Time of the Doctor completely pointless now too. It's nice that The Day of the Doctor has got someone to commiserate with.
So I guess the 'first' Doctor is actually the millionth Doctor for all we know? Numbering them all will be fun won't it?
But the best thing is that the Ruth Doctor comes in and tells the Doctor that the revelations about desecration of her past don't actually change who she is, so it doesn't matter. I vehemently disagree, obviously, but will simply say that if that's the case, why bother with the storyline in the process? What's the point of it?
The only conclusion that I can reach is that Chibnall has done it purely for the sake of his ego, so he will be remembered for something - cos it's definitely not going to be for the quality of his episodes and era.
I'm a lifelong fan of Doctor Who. I'm not a fan in any way, shape, or form of what this zombified husk is now. As far as I'm concerned, Doctor Who ended in 2017, and will not be revived until someone comes along and rightly retcons this mess away. 'The Master tampered with the Matrix.' There. Done.
"I'm the Doctor. I'm a Time Lord from the planet Gallifrey in the constellation of Kasterborous." Is a sentence that is completely and utterly false. Let that sink in.
I shall now attempt to compartmentalise this episode so that I'll actually be able to enjoy past eras of the show. Wish me luck.
.
(As an aside, I don't think I'd have much of a problem with the Timeless Child idea if it were applied to anyone other than the Doctor. Hell, it'd actually make a good deal of sense to make it the Master - it would at least explain why he's able to come back from assumed death all the time.)
SonicR says...
I haven't seen the episode. I have no desire to do so. Courtesy of some leaks and information from friends, I know the plot of the episode
Chibnall knows his Doctor Who. References to the Shobogans, Panopticon, Borusa...he knows his stuff. Clearly he knew about the Morbius Doctors as well. As best I can determine, this whole series arc was entirely devoted to making the Morbius Doctors official Doctors, without a single damn given for any other lore or continuity that would break as a result. Apparently Chibnall's wanted to tell this story for decades - and I think that's correct, because it reads like atrocious fan fiction. He's broken an extremely long list for a minor thing fans had easily explained away for decades.
He's completely and utterly character assassinated the Doctor. She's now the Chosen One, destined for great things - hell, as the Ruth Doctor shows, she was kicking about in a police box TARDIS calling herself the Doctor long before the Hartnell Doctor came on the scene. So all that character growth that we saw the Hartnell Doctor experience? Utterly pointless. It's incredibly disrespectful to Hartnell.
The Doctor should not be the uber-special Chosen One. He should always be the ordinary man, the underachiever, who got bored/fearful/whatever and left Gallifrey, becoming the person we know through his interaction with his companions. You know, the development we actually saw. Guess that's not the case anymore.
Can the Doctor die mid-regeneration like other the Time Lords? Is she immortal? Does she still have infinite regenerations? I guess that makes The Time of the Doctor completely pointless now too. It's nice that The Day of the Doctor has got someone to commiserate with.
So I guess the 'first' Doctor is actually the millionth Doctor for all we know? Numbering them all will be fun won't it?
But the best thing is that the Ruth Doctor comes in and tells the Doctor that the revelations about desecration of her past don't actually change who she is, so it doesn't matter. I vehemently disagree, obviously, but will simply say that if that's the case, why bother with the storyline in the process? What's the point of it?
The only conclusion that I can reach is that Chibnall has done it purely for the sake of his ego, so he will be remembered for something - cos it's definitely not going to be for the quality of his episodes and era.
I'm a lifelong fan of Doctor Who. I'm not a fan in any way, shape, or form of what this zombified husk is now. As far as I'm concerned, Doctor Who ended in 2017, and will not be revived until someone comes along and rightly retcons this mess away. 'The Master tampered with the Matrix.' There. Done.
"I'm the Doctor. I'm a Time Lord from the planet Gallifrey in the constellation of Kasterborous." Is a sentence that is completely and utterly false. Let that sink in.
I shall now attempt to compartmentalise this episode so that I'll actually be able to enjoy past eras of the show. Wish me luck.
.
(As an aside, I don't think I'd have much of a problem with the Timeless Child idea if it were applied to anyone other than the Doctor. Hell, it'd actually make a good deal of sense to make it the Master - it would at least explain why he's able to come back from assumed death all the time.)
I couldn't agree more.
I actually saw the episode twice (once alone and once with my mother - still the best from Chibnall, but not really Doctor Who or honouring the past), and contrary to the belief of some I am not a young viewer (if I was I would probably love the nonsense that Chibnall is producing) - I have been watching since the end of the 3rd Doctor (I remember seeing "Planet of the Spiders" as a young child and being scared by the huge spiders). My mother started watching at the same time.
Mum said why is the episode called the Timeless Children (plural) if it's only about the Doctor being the Timeless Child - the cyber-Timelords are not children and according to the Master (who doesn't fit with the history) the Doctor is the only one with limitless regenerations (hello - can we as Rasilion, think "The Five Doctors"). What I don't get is why embrace the history of Doctor Who in one scene (when she overloaded the Matrix with stuff it should already know) but spend the rest of the episode(s)/series destroying the history. This is not respectful, this is a cheap romance novel version of Doctor Who's history and potential - when in doubt retcon the past to create drama (the sign of a poor imagination, perhaps).
If they do retcon the Timeless Child thing I would hope that Rasilion is either the child or Tecteum and the Master is the other - with the Doctor being one of the original Time Lords (it would fit with the implication made by the 7th Doctor that he was there when the Hand of Omega was created) - perhaps even one of those who didn't age in Brendan's timeline. But this is just my opinion.
Reply
Ducktr
1:30 AM on March 6, 2020
SonicR says...
I'm a lifelong fan of Doctor Who. I'm not a fan in any way, shape, or form of what this zombified husk is now. As far as I'm concerned, Doctor Who ended in 2017, and will not be revived until someone comes along and rightly retcons this mess away. 'The Master tampered with the Matrix.' There. Done.
I personally felt Dr Who died in the last series of Capaldiâ??s- made me actually hate Capaldis Doctor. On the other hand I liked the fresh take of Jodieâ??s first series, but unfortunately it has gone down hill again. As if the Ruth Doctor mystery wasnâ??t enough of a mystery solve- they threw too much at us and tried to explain it all in one episode.
That aside I do think if you shouldnâ??t throw aside the show on the basis of what youâ??ve read. Watch the episode yourself- In my opinion it was the Master who convinced the Doctor she was the timeless child- not the Matrix. The master is a master at mind manipulation- youâ??re idea that it could actually have been the Master makes a lot more sense than it being the Doctor- and when you become show runner it will be great to see you set matters straight. PS great to hear from you again!
Reply
ClassicFangirl
6:01 AM on March 6, 2020
While I don't love this episode, I don't hate it either.
But this isn't Doctor Who. None of the previous Doctors would have ignored the genocide of two races (humanity and the Galifreyans).
I won't be back for the next season. As far as I'm concerned Doctor Who went on hiatus in 2017 and has yet to come back. I'll put the Whittaker era in a box with the dire recent episodes of the K9 kids series, as a 3rd rate spin off.
But this isn't Doctor Who. None of the previous Doctors would have ignored the genocide of two races (humanity and the Galifreyans).
I won't be back for the next season. As far as I'm concerned Doctor Who went on hiatus in 2017 and has yet to come back. I'll put the Whittaker era in a box with the dire recent episodes of the K9 kids series, as a 3rd rate spin off.
Ducktr says...
I personally felt Dr Who died in the last series of Capaldiâ??s- made me actually hate Capaldis Doctor. On the other hand I liked the fresh take of Jodieâ??s first series, but unfortunately it has gone down hill again. As if the Ruth Doctor mystery wasnâ??t enough of a mystery solve- they threw too much at us and tried to explain it all in one episode.
That aside I do think if you shouldnâ??t throw aside the show on the basis of what youâ??ve read. Watch the episode yourself- In my opinion it was the Master who convinced the Doctor she was the timeless child- not the Matrix. The master is a master at mind manipulation- youâ??re idea that it could actually have been the Master makes a lot more sense than it being the Doctor- and when you become show runner it will be great to see you set matters straight. PS great to hear from you again!
Thanks Ducktr! It's good to be back here again, even if it isn't how I'd imagined it.
I've watched 6 episodes of Chibnall's era, all from Series 11, and didn't enjoy a single one. I've heard that Series 12 was an improvement, and I don't doubt that I'd probably enjoy some episodes if I did watch them. But I'm extremely determined to never allow The Timeless Children to grace my retinas, purely because I want to maintain a level of plausible deniability. I already know that the Doctor is the Timeless Child unfortunately, but if I never watch the episode, then I can say I've never seen it happen, and can (hopefully) happily continue watching the 54 years of the show without it being tainted too much. I'm already struggling with that a bit, so much so that I wish I'd never read the leaks a month ago, and had remained blissfully unaware.
As much as I'd love to be showrunner, I don't think I'd be the best fit - not least because my first move would be taking the nuclear option, deleting the entire Chris Chibnall era from the canon of the show. I'd reshoot Capaldi's regeneration scene with a different 13th Doctor and pretend the Chibnall era never happened. It's not exactly what I'd call professional behaviour! But in an ideal world, that's what I want to happen.
I do like the idea of the Master being the one to convince the Doctor, with help from the Matrix - and that makes it easier to retcon too, as he did something similar in Trial of a Time Lord in the 80s. Though I guess it wasn't actually a trial of a Time Lord now - Trial of the Random Alien from another Galaxy is a better title. Oh, and the whole Valeyard thing has got a spanner in the works now too. An amalgamation of his dark side between 12th and final incarnation? That covers a lot of ground now, espeically since the 12th Doctor could actually be the billionth incarnation for all we know.
Ugh. The more I think about it the more I realise just how much it broke. But hey, the Morbius Doctors are canon now! Yay...
The reboot of Dr Who with a female is the best thing since sliced bread.
Enough of harvey Weinstein type tired old geezers hovering over young girls.
The pool of english actors that could fill the role is limited, Probably why Jodie has so many assistants.
Putting a 40 plus cougar with just a young male assistant would not work in these times either.
Just about every SciFi show has rebooted featuring strong female roles.
In business it's called a 'creative gale of destruction', out with the old, in with the new.
It's time.
Enough of harvey Weinstein type tired old geezers hovering over young girls.
The pool of english actors that could fill the role is limited, Probably why Jodie has so many assistants.
Putting a 40 plus cougar with just a young male assistant would not work in these times either.
Just about every SciFi show has rebooted featuring strong female roles.
In business it's called a 'creative gale of destruction', out with the old, in with the new.
It's time.
Reply
Rumpole
11:19 PM on March 7, 2020
MaxHR says...
The reboot of Dr Who with a female is the best thing since sliced bread.
Enough of harvey Weinstein type tired old geezers hovering over young girls.
The pool of english actors that could fill the role is limited, Probably why Jodie has so many assistants.
Putting a 40 plus cougar with just a young male assistant would not work in these times either.
Just about every SciFi show has rebooted featuring strong female roles.
In business it's called a 'creative gale of destruction', out with the old, in with the new.
It's time.
Trouble is Max, Jodie is not a "strong" character. She's scatterbrained, almost childish, and prone to lecturing on PC topics. There is basically no depth to the character as it's written. Even the "hated" Capaldi (not by me though) had a presence and a perception of power. Jodie has a sonic screwdriver and that's it.
Reply
Andrew
9:10 AM on March 8, 2020
This review pretty much sums it up
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VlGQgfXtC40
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VlGQgfXtC40
Andrew says...
This review pretty much sums it up
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VlGQgfXtC40
I think SonicR wrote that !
Some interesting comments here.
https://deadline.com/2020/02/bbc-doctor-who-not-being-rested-1202
866816/
https://deadline.com/2020/02/bbc-doctor-who-not-being-rested-1202
866816/
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